Recreational Teleportation Device (RTD) is a device obtained from Battle Star Naya after defeating her in the Silvent Battle Theatre and later meeting her in Galvanite Cave. Frost Beam is an Ice-type Ranged Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Rarely, it may only have a single helpful or hindering personality. . There are many variations of Capture Discs, each with differing potency, or capture rate. gamer_guy_mike_real • • 3 yr. Get inspired by our community of talented artists. Wabalisc; Wintrix; Categories Categories: Loomians by type; Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted. Members Online What's an alpha gleam pure nimble Ursoul worth?Become a member of this channel to get access to unlimited perks and get the ability to get guaranteed private trades from me in my Discord DM!: need a robust sluggish wabalisc set . After talking to Sawyer, the owner of. Potency determines the probability of effectively capturing a Loomian. There are currently 20 Loomians that are Ice-type, including variants, of which nine are pure and 11 are part-type. Rant is a Dark-type Ranged Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. What is a good moveset for Wabalisc? 4. 5 Gamma Fossil: 6-11 Gamma RR: 7-12 Gleam Pharoglyph: 30-60 Gleam Duskit: 50-80 Gleam Ikazune: 50-80 Gleam Protogon: 50-80 Gamma Operaptor/Igneol: 45-70. Halloween duskit is the best looking roaming. Loomian Legacy Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community. Anyone got a fully pvp wabalisc up for trade. The eerie cry it makes can be heard from far away and is often feared by those who hear it in the dead of the night. Loomian Legacy Gamma Gleaming Rare Loomians ! Opens in a new window or tab. Lucky Wheel is a facility located in Atlanthian City (Entertainment District) that offers different kinds of Items. Loomian Legacy Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community. Today, we will finally showcase Wabalisc, and this thing might be one of the best tanks in the game. . 18. Baba Discs have no. Celesting is a Metal/Light-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow that roams in Jolly Village during the 2022 Holiday Event. I mean basically everyone has wabalisc so it'll still be kinda low value. . . 0. how much is a wabalisc worth. RoboTwilat aka pro rat. The user punches the target with a cold fist, which has a 10% chance to cause the target to become dazed or to begin freezing. The concept of Loomian Abilities draws inspiration. This is SO COOL!FIRST EVER GAMMA WABALISC!!! (Loomian Legacy)I bet you wont click on "SHOW MORE"Now that you did, could you please check out my social links?. 0. Waba Disc is an Item introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Loomian Abilities are special powers that each Loomian possesses that can have effects both in battle and the overworld. TankPlayzStuff · 4/19/2022 in General. The eerie cry it makes can be heard from far away and serves as a warning for its prey. 8 gr value. Its normal form evolves into either Luxoar or Umbrat starting at Level 22 depending on whether it is day or night, respectively. The user unleashes an attack that is super-effective on Water-type Loomians. It evolves from Vari when the player tosses a piece of Coal or a Mystic Wand into a lava rock while standing on it in Igneus Hollow then has Vari walk over the lava rock. Zepholen can be obtained in the listed installments of Loomian Legacy through the following means: All level-up. Follow @Llama_Train_S or join the Llama Train. This is a wiki where anyone can contribute to this community and add to the growing source of information about the game. It evolves from Snowki starting at Level 34, which evolves from Snocub starting at Level 18. 많은 유저들이 전설인지 헷갈려하는 루미안. Follow @Llama_Train_S or join the Llama Train. Developer Loomians are Loomians that have been created by a developer and are not able to be obtained in normal gameplay. This is created to document information and discuss the Loomian Legacy game series. puppy_lord_ • 2 yr. r/LoomianLegacy A chip A chipReplicate is an Ability introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. 5-0. Below appears a list, sortable by column, of the Loomians that evolve by this method together with the level and total experience required to be able to evolve, as they appear in Loomian Legacy -. Doreggo is a Dark/Air-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. The description for this move in each installment of Loomian Legacy is listed as follows: Some Loomians are so rare that they cannot be Rally Leaders. The user creates a small earthquake that deals damage to all adjacent Loomians. A Loomian will commonly have a pair of helpful and hindering personality or an indifferent personality that affects no stats. SEMBALIUK, Paul Maxym July 2, 1929 - November 26, 2019 A Prayer Service will be held in Edmonton, Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 7:00 p. The Loomian Legacy Tier list plays a crucial role to give you a winning path. Loomian Legacy: Veils of Shadow. Later in the game, you can start battling against other players through the PvP system, at which point what roster you use becomes a large part of your chance of winning. . Stozap is an Electric-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Locations. 0. They can only learn Rally moves. Community. 21. Icicle Trap is an Ice-type Support Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. It tanks so many hits, can heal with sap plant, and can place poison barbs. Thank you my good sir. Training Hotspots are locations or NPC trainers that provide a consistent source of Training Points (TPs), money, or experience. Discs. Therefore, it’s important to pick up the most efficient Loomians from the list. 이벤트 전용이 아닌 전설의 루미안은, 조건을 모두 충족할 시 로리아 전역에서 나온다. , or if the opposing Loomian possesses the Circadian, Life Force, Two Face, or Festive Spirit. They can be obtained by playing the Tricky Treat Exchange minigame at Haunted Village. Gleam pharo bad nature = 0. I primarily focus on the competitive aspects of Loomian Legacy. Ursnac is a Spirit/Brawler-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow during the 2021 Valentines Event. Doreggo can be obtained in the listed installments of. Hunder is a large, dog-like Loomian with mechanical body parts. Fossil – An erroneous term referring to Petroliths or Loomians revived from Petroliths, derived from Pokémon. Each Loomian species has one or two Regular Abilities and one Secret Ability, except for Swirelle, Boonary, the Spirivii evolutionary line, the Mistlebud evolutionary line, and the Singeel evolutionary line, which have no Secret. Ancient Scepter allows certain Loomians to evolve when used on them. Here you can find the latest information about the game, Loomians, and much more. Cryocub is an Ice-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. By Category. ALL POSTS. A Gleaming Loomian is a rare kind of Loomian that has an abnormal coloration and a glowing aura. Stricicle can be obtained in the listed installments of. The Worn Rope junk item can be given to Propae for it to evolve into Sumobito at level 16 or above. . They had a 40% chance to be obtained from Easy raids, 70% from Normal raids and 75% from Nightmare raids. Today, I will showcase Seedrake and this thing is the best thing ever. 4. 6 gr value. It evolves into Barbadger by leveling up while knowing the move Brawn Boost. Use the Tutifruit. Nevermare is the SCARIEST LEGENDARY! - Loomian Legacy PVPSubscribe to the channel for more videos!Become a Member of the channel here: Key is a Key Item introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Sharpen is a Dark-type Support Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Merch: you to these channel members!GusSamCapittaleDinkyTheDoughnutJoesph Satria Saksama h20ShaylaJairo SolisHunterxtremePlay. Vicious is an Ability introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. It hits hard, has great coverage, and can even get plus 1 attack after attacking with. The better types of gamma starters= 0. Stricicle is an Ice/Air-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. It evolves from Halloween Kabunga when traded for a Holiday Craytal. The user bites the target with chilling fangs, which has a 10% chance to freeze or flinch the target. Vanta. Bane of Haste is an Ancient-type Support Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Timber Thrash is a Plant-type Melee Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Each Loomian species has one or two Regular Abilities and one Secret Ability, except for Swirelle, Boonary, the Spirivii evolutionary line, the Mistlebud evolutionary line, and the Singeel evolutionary line, which have no Secret Ability. Brand New. You would also see how to get the new gatekey in the gift exchange minigame in. It is an attribute that mainly balances out Loomians, and helps to make each kind of Loomian unique in its own way. (Night: Umbrat, Day: Luxoar)About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright. Pwuff is a Water/Toxic-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Wabalisc. Garbantis can be obtained in the listed installments of Loomian Legacy through the following means: All level-up moves learned below a Loomian's level can be re-learned at the Move. Here you can find the latest information about the game, Loomians, and much more. 1 alpha at most. Activated upon making contact. Developer Loomian; Lists of Loomians. The possessor's Melee Attack is increased by 50% when in battle, but its Accuracy is decreased by 20%. . hw shawchi and slug used to be worth like 2 alpha and now are worth 3 gamma. 5x 3. The description for this move in each installment of Loomian Legacy is listed as follows: Thunderstrike can be taught to the following. The Baba. The user shoots a beam of frosty ice at its target, which has a 10% chance to freeze it. I think Loomian Legacy needs to create its own identity and evade similarities with Pokémon. Each Ancient Scepter can only be used for one evolution. It evolves from Snowl starting at Level 23 and evolves into Wintrix starting at Level 37 while in Jolly Village. It was designed by YoloDraws. . The ranch consists of a large, single-floor farmhouse with a fenced-in pasture. 2. carrying me. Wabalisc has returned this year, this is how to get it! Make sure to LIKE THE VIDEO!⭐Use STAR CODE ARMENTI when buying Robux or Premium :)🙌I receive 5% of e. Frost punch, electro punch, clay slap and sharpen. Ignorant has no effect outside of battle. Total Eclipse is an Ability introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Here's how I would write Wabalisc's entry: Wabalisc resides in freezing caves, emerging every winter to terrorize and eat those who have been naughty. ago. Wabalisc is a derpy BEAST! - Loomian Legacy PVPSubscribe to the channel for more videos!Become a Member of the channel here: Disc is an Item introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Gleaming (Base Chance): 1/4096. Loomian Legacy is a creature catching game on ROBLOX being developed by Llama Train Studios and their team of developers. What is a gleaming Wabalisc worth? Any offers? Cause I got a person that wants to give a Gamma boarrok for my Gleaming Wabalisc and Stratasoar. The description for this move in each installment of Loomian Legacy is listed as follows: Eerie Stare can be taught to the following Loomians by the scientist in Room #2 at the laboratory complex of POLUT Campus. The description for this move in each installment of Loomian Legacy is listed as follows:. Waka-Laka is a Plant/Mind-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Ice Hammer is an Ice-type Melee Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Loomian Legacy is a creature catching game on ROBLOX being developed by Llama Train Studios and their team of developers. Pwuff Lord Over Heaven. 1. It could be obtained from the Jolly Village Great Gift Exchange during the 2021 and 2022 Holiday Events. It evolves from Reptide starting at Level 34, which evolves from Dripple starting at Level 18. These are all the Loomians you will be coming across Loomian Legacy. The differences of regular and Gleaming Loomians are purely aesthetic—whether a Loomian is Gleaming or not has no effect on its stats. The user stares at the target, lowering their Melee Defense and Speed by one stage. Rally Ranch is a location where players can assign their Loomians to rally new Loomians with similar qualities. It was designed by YoloDraws. It evolves into Snowki starting at Level 18, which evolves into Himbrr starting at Level 34. Dawnofvictory123 · 10/12/2022. Hope this helps!How to GET THE NEW LEGENDARY WALIBASIC! (Loomian Legacy)I bet you wont click on "SHOW MORE"Now that you did, could you please check out my so. It comes in four fruit variations, being Strawberry, Raspberry, Blueberry and Lemon. I got a pure nimble one (not sa) and what should i do with it? Wabalisc. As Nymaurae is an Event Loomian, it can only learn the following moves from the Rally Leader while being the Rally. It evolves from Halloween Kabunga when traded or given an Exchane Gem while holding a Nightmare Orb. Potency determines the probability of effectively capturing a Loomian. These Loomians can only be obtained by creating them as a developer or directly trading with a developer of the game. Hunder can be obtained in the listed installments of Loomian Legacy through the following means: All level-up moves learned below a Loomian's level can be re-learned at the Move Reminder for 20 CP. . Jolly Village is a winter exclusive holiday-themed village and was the main hub of the 2020, 2021, and 2022 Holiday Events. Its rainbow form was available during the 2020 Rainbow Twilat Giveaway event and cannot evolve. Ice-type Loomians are immune to Icicle Trap. The Move Manual for this move can be bought at Colosseum Marketplace for 100 CP. 0. Snowflake Disc. Gleam Metronette/ Wabalisc: 2-3 Santa Ragoon: 2-3 HW Shawchi: 1 HW Gastroak: 0. All level-up moves learned below. Roria is inhabited by various creatures called Loomians which players can catch, train and bond with. Christine Mielke. PU= Looms used sometimes, but not usually often. Oxidrake is an Ancient/Metal-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. The user and the target exchange their Abilities with each other. 와바리스크 / Wabalisc(☆) 3. LookForShiny = true to true. 0. 13K Members. RU= Looms that are rarely used. However, when used in the Overworld, they can have an effect in future battles. 1. Here you can find the latest information about the game, Loomians, and much more. The description for this move in each installment of Loomian Legacy is listed as follows: Brawn Boost is the second move that can trigger. Wabalisc is an Ice-Type Loomian that roams the Jolly Village during the holiday events only, which makes him a limited event Loomian. The normal ability is better thiugh. Obsidrugon can be obtained in the listed installments of Loomian Legacy through the following means: All level-up moves learned below a Loomian's level can be re-learned. 능력치는 모두 650으로 이벤트 한정으로 배포하는 전용 루미안과 아닌 전설의 루미안으로 세분화된다. 0. 6. Wzwt27 · 3/20/2021. 0. ago. Fly and ride pot with low legendary and adds. This tier list is beneficial for all, whether beginners or. It is one of Vari’s final evolutions, the others being Cervolen, Wendolen, Kirolen, Venolen, Wresolen, Buzzolen, Tundrolen, Pyrolen and Hydrolen. Swolder is a Bug/Toxic-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. It evolves from Vari when the player tosses a piece of Coal or a Mystic Wand into a lava rock while standing on it in Igneus Hollow then has Vari walk over the lava rock. Many held items are sold in this shop for Colosseum Points. Roaming Loomian은 한국 에서는 흔히 전설의 루미안 이라고 불린다. This is a refresher for those who are just now playing the event, aswell those who wanna know what the new colors & odds are!Merch: are actions that a Loomian can perform during battle. Wabalisc. ago. It was designed by BluefireMochi. Hope this article was able to help you out. . . . Nymaurae has a Rainbow form that was encounterable anywhere in Roria during the 2023 Rainbow Event at a 1/15000 (0. These are Loomians with an encounter that can always be found in a certain situation. They can only learn Rally moves as the Rally Assistant from a Rally. Will you get one?How Much Is GAMMA GLEAMING WABALISC WORTH? (Loomian Legacy)I bet you wont click on "SHOW MORE"Now that you did, could you please check out m. Es mas facil de lo que parece!Discord (+13): de roblox:. Abilities may be Regular or Secret, the latter being much harder to obtain than the former. . Information regarding future content updates is listed in Upcoming Content. Any rarity levels out of the above 4, like "Super. HOW TO GET WABALISC IN LOOMIAN LEGACY!Join my Discord Server!⠀ ︎ me on Twitter!⠀ ︎ Lo. The user shouts in anger at the opponent(s), which decreases their Ranged Attack by one stage. . LoomiValues is the ultimate Loomian Legacy values list. Welcome to the Loomian Legacy community on Reddit! Loomian Legacy is a creature catching game on ROBLOX being developed by Llama Train Studios and their team of developers. 0. Roria is the fictional region that Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow is set in. It is the signature move of Vari's evolved forms. BlazikenFromHoenn. UH OH! Someone has been using stinky language and u/PooPooPeePeeXD123 decided to check u/Air_Chicken787 's bad word usage. Here you can find the latest information about the game, Loomians, and much more. Zaleo is an Ancient/Electric-Type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. m. The logs have been aggregated from multiple official sources including Llama Train Studio's Discord server and Twitter account. how much is a wabalisc worth. Loomian Legacy Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community. I mean basically everyone has wabalisc so it'll still be kinda low value. (Loomian Legacy) - YouTube 0:00 / 1:30 How to Get WABALISC in the 2022 CHRISTMAS EVENT! (Loomian Legacy) Armenti 138K subscribers Join Subscribe 31K views 2 months ago Wabalisc has. Snake_Bomber • 3 yr. Worst one is 0. 1. The Ability Charm is required to have a chance at acquiring Loomians with these abilities in the wild, allowing a 1/256 chance of encountering a wild Loomian with a Secret Ability. Ancient Scepter is an Item introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow, which can be given to any Loomian. Cryocub can be obtained in. ago. Vesperatu, Ikazune, Stratusoar, Revenine, and Spreezy are like the most overused. Follow @Llama_Train_S or join the Llama Train. I find out what its good against, poor against, best set, when to change it an. This set can Sharpen once and then use 4 attacks. Gleam pharo good nature= 0. Luminami is a Water/Light-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Elephage is an Electric-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. There are seven Shards in the game, one for each stat. Sup guys I just wanted to show you what the new gleam roam looks like make sure you like and sub thanksOne big Snack of a bear! - Loomian Legacy PVPSubscribe to the channel for more videos!Become a Member of the channel here: have been struggling a LOT against Dreggodyne and I would like to know some good lommians to pvp train so I could beat it more easily (no roamers pls, I'm too unlucky to find a good one) Just get a teammate who can easily put it to sleep. Abilities are aspects of Loomians that can have effects in battle and in the overworld. The Loomian Legacy Tier list plays a crucial role to give you a winning path. @Wzwt27 oh yea they so lose value over time. 2. Its one of the few loomians to have barbs and drivings f. . The description for this move in each installment of Loomian Legacy is listed as follows: Some Loomians are so rare that they cannot be Rally Leaders. Spreezy can be obtained in the listed installments of Loomian Legacy through the following means: All level-up moves learned below a Loomian's level can be re-learned at the. It evolves from Mochibi starting at Level 18 and evolves into Mocho starting at Level 32. The future of Loomian Legacy will be incredible. It is one of Vari’s final evolutions, the others being Cervolen, Wendolen, Kirolen, Venolen, Wresolen, Buzzolen, Tundrolen, Pyrolen and Hydrolen. "Arapaigo is a Water-Type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. The user focuses on its strength, boosting its Melee and Ranged Attack by one stage each. It evolves from Pwuff starting at Level 26 if leveled up in Lotusun Beach. Aqua Jaws to chip opponents, Icicle Trap to chip enemies, Poison to chip enemies combined with baneful and rejuvenate to stay healthy. View Mobile Site. They can only learn Rally. 6 gr value. It is an artificial creation that belongs to Vantacorp and was the first creation of Dr. Values. This is a list of all the update logs retaining to Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow in reverse chronological order. . ago. How much is an alpha wabalisc worth? Also,does anyone have one? 0. The user punches the target with a cold fist, which has a 10% chance to cause the target to become dazed or to begin freezing. (Games been playing & Streaming)(Roblox: Loomian Legacy, Dawn of Aurora, WorldZero, DBZ - Final Stand) Nintendo & Fun Games!((Road to 4K Sub's!!!))WE DID IT. Odoyaga is a Mind/Air-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow that roams in Haunted Village during the 2023 Halloween Event. Scapegoat can be used to block attacks so that you can set up. Vicious has no effect outside of battle. Ignorant is an Ability introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Ice-type Loomians are immune to the Freeze status ailment. 8 gr value. I don't really do pvp but I feel like it would me good to have one. Hasty is very good and goes perfectly with Sharpen. It evolves into Joltooth starting at Level 30. Glacadia is an Ice/Ancient-Type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Taoshinu is a Typeless Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. 8. It is. 2 aka 10 gammas. If you have an idea for a Showcase, leave i. Wabalisc is an Ice-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow that roamed in Jolly Village during the 2020, 2021 and 2022 Holiday Events. . Follow @Llama_Train_S or join the Llama Train. Celesting. Follow. . Gamma sa bad = 20-25 gammas. . Members Online we got the update… but at what cost…Swirelle is an Air-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. . Let's talk about it! Make sure to LIKE THE VIDEO!⭐Use STAR CODE ARMENTI when buying Robux or Premium :)🙌I. 0. Zeitrepxe. Loomian Legacy is not a. Pokeball12357. Power Cuffs allows Pharoglyph to hit a lot harder. The (?) item on the wheel is currently unobtainable and will allow the player to respin the wheel. Wabalisc is a derpy BEAST! - Loomian Legacy PVPSubscribe to the channel for more videos!Become a Member of the channel here: Baba Disc is an Item introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. Once a player obtains an item, they can perform up to three actions: use, give and toss. Eerie Stare is a Typeless Support Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. I find out what its good against, poor against, best set, when to change it an. Experience is a value held by Loomians that grows as they battle. It evolves from Rakrawla starting at Level 25. 78125%) chance. YOOOO! In this video I used Nymaurae, and it is CRAZY!If you have an idea for a Showcase, leave it down in the comments below!Like or OMGSub for WHATDiscord. Zepholen is an Air-type Loomian introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. The description for this move in each installment of Loomian Legacy is listed as follows: Eerie Stare can be taught to the following Loomians by the scientist in Room #2 at the. This Ability is found in the following Loomians: Luster Loot is a Light-type Ranged Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. 200 Ranged Defense and 48 Melee Defense gets your defenses as high as possible whilst. OU= Commonly used looms. #roblox #gaming #loomianlegacyIn this video i run the pvp set for SA wabalisc. It evolves from Weevolt starting at Level 18 and evolves into Zuelong starting at Level 34. She is well-known for concise, informative. . 1 gr is 5, . It was designed by Floigon. The game revolves around Loomians which are unique, fictional, animal-like creatures that have their. Stay ahead of the competition by discovering the true value of any Loomian using our guide. Show more. 0. defense after recieving contact. I found a gamma Halloween Mistleblud in Loomian LegacyThe Loomian Legacy Tier List will help you know the rankings and roast the opponents, especially in PvP team building. It was designed by BluefireMochi. I am a bot that performs automatic profanity reports. Follow @Llama_Train_S or join the Llama Train Studio. Flabbergast is STAB and can cover many loomians such as Trumbull, Mootune, Terrafly, and Tahtab. These forms can be changed an unlimited number of times by using a Magic Chisel on it. Now go out there and catch some. Stricicle was designed by now-Llama Train Studio developer Floigon as part of a Loomian Design Contest. Watermelon490843 · 7/19/2021 in General. Obsidrugon. The user will share pain with their target, causing both the user and target to have their Health equalized. Clay Slap is an Earth-type Melee Move introduced in Loomian Legacy - Veils of Shadow. It appears to be a modern-day descendant of Dorogo. Arceros. It could have been obtained through Raid Battles during the 2023 Easter Event. Hunder can be obtained in the listed installments of Loomian Legacy through the following means: All level-up moves learned below a Loomian's level can be re-learned at the Move Reminder for 20 CP. Loomians are born with their. By normal i meant non-pvp, can be bad stats, etc.